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Double Dutch

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Article Submitted to THBN by Josh Reeves

It has become evidently obvious that the Spurs faithful are now split between sticking with Martin Jol or replacing him with another manager. Why has it come to this? I can give you an answer in just two words; The Media.

I am a believer in Jol. I am not led by some mysterious blind faith that dictates my decisions. I believe that Martin Jol is the man to take Spurs to the next level based upon the reaction of just one thing; the fact that the players really want to play for him. The media however, have all jumped on the lilywhite bandwagon rolling down the Tottenham High Street.

When Ramosgate first broke onto the scene, nearly all the fans were behind Martin. Now though, it seems as though the majority are sliding. We now have a mix of Pro-Jolites and Anti-Jolism followers.

Much to the excitement of the Anti-Jolism movement, reports this week have speculated on the fact that Martin will get the sack and that another Dutchman, Ronald Koeman, will be put in charge. I find this news very disturbing. A fair few ITK's are now claiming it to be a dead certainty that the former Barcelona defender will take charge before the Arsenal game.

If this is true, how on earth do our board know that Koeman is a better leader than Jol? If another manager replaced Martin, we all know that he would need time to instill new training methods, new backroom staff, etc into the club. The club may see a drastic decline in results and form before things got better, if they were to get better under a new manager.

The only other thing I can add to this entire debacle is that if Martin Jol is sacked, and another manager is brought in, please can we at least give the new manager three full seasons before going in behind his back to find a successor?

45 comments

  1. Are you the Josh that sometimes posts comments on here?

    If so, I like your article, but I have to disagree with you on that Jol is the man to take us forward.

    Take a look at Koeman's track record and you'll see that he is a winner.
  2. I would swap Ronny Koeman in an instant if I was Levy.

    I don't know what he's like as a person (maybe not a niceguy like Jol) but the guy has won things on small budgets.

    Jol has won nothing on vast budgets.

    You don't have to be a mathematician to see who's a better manager.
  3. If Koeman was such a winner the Dutch FA would be offering him a job.....
  4. Look at what Koeman has done;

    Taken from wikipedia

    Having retired as a player after his stint with Feyenoord, Koeman became member of the coaching staff of Guus Hiddink during the World Cup 1998 along with Johan Neeskens and Frank Rijkaard. After the tournament Koeman was appointed the assistant coach of FC Barcelona. In 2000, he was handed his first managerial job as the head coach of Vitesse Arnhem where he led the team to a UEFA Cup spot on a relatively limited budget.

    Koeman was appointed the manager of Ajax Amsterdam in 2001. Ajax' fortunes suffered a steady decline after Koeman got off to a successful start at the ArenA, winning a domestic double in 2001-02. Despite regaining the title in 2003-04, Ajax had fallen behind rivals PSV Eindhoven as the Netherlands' top team, and Koeman resigned after the Amsterdam side were knocked out of the UEFA Cup by AJ Auxerre.

    Koeman bounced back quickly from a disappointing end to his reign at AFC Ajax in February 2005, taking up the vacan…
  5. He turned it down stating that he would only be interested in becoming a national manager when he reached his late 50's.
  6. Where did you get that info from 3:10pm?

    THBN
  7. Jol will be gone during the next 8 days according to a few forums.

    But then again, what do they know heh?
  8. I think you need to have a look at what Koeman has actually won. Its not as if its as simple as saying oh look that non-league striker has scored 100 goals in a season I bet he'd be great at Spurs......

    I wouldn't trade Jol for him, if we are going to get rid of him (and I hope we don't) we need an undeniably better class of manager and I don't believe Koeman is in that category.
  9. If that wiki info is accurate, then it shows Koeman to be a real winner. He's never had a big budget like Jol has, but then again, he's managed in Micky-Mouse leagues.

    The Premiership is a whole different ball-game
  10. I agree 3:13
  11. I think that potted history says it all. Notice a pattern in there? Koeman takes a team that has been successful and gradually makes them worse.....
  12. He c**ked up at Ajax and turned the Portuguese Champions into a third place side in a three horse race! Not good enough to replace Jol.
  13. I'd like Jol to be given the rest of the season, unless we're still in a mess by Christmas. As for Koeman I think it is more of a sideways step, I think there are better out there if we are going to make a change.
  14. I think there's a big difference between Martin Jol as genuinely nice guy and Martin Jol as astute tactician and coach. Whilst we all "like" him, many of us - if not most of us, at least those that I know from going to WHL for the last 37 years) - have been continuously flummoxed by bizarre team selection, seeming isolation of apparently (very) good players and ridiculous substitutions that cost us points time and time again.

    We have a wonderful squad, and frankly any manager/coach with a reasonable amount of ability would have been able to secure us a 5th place spot with that talent; I'm not jumping on any bandwagon - I've been saying for 18 months that Jol isn't the man to get us into the Champion's League! I certainly don't think he's made the best use of the incredible resources available to him, which are now even stronger in terms of depth than ever.

    I think the mistake the board made was doing what they did in public. And if they'd manag…
  15. I still can't believe it is favored speculation by some Spurs supporters, that we should sack our manager before a match against Le Arse and spend the next half a season letting the new manager 'bed in'. Resulting in maybe 7th and the probable loss of Berbatov. If we fail this season under Jol, at least we lost trying!
  16. it has took alex ferguson 5 years to make man utd good!!! why do we have to have instant success. The media set us up for a fall during the summer claiming we were going to be brilliant. what makes us think ronald koeman will do any better. we should look at the team more than jol. jenas who seems to be jols biggest mistake is woeful, but its not as if commolis favorite player is setting the world alight, zokora is the worst buy ever and that is no fault of jols. we should support jol and be calling for the board to go. jol gets the fans backing most of the time so why are the board not behind him
  17. I would suggest that you all check out Jol's background and his achievements before he became involved with tottenham.

    Koeman was a good player in his playing days and could have played for any top 4 club in the premier league, but he is just an above average coach not bad for clubs trying to compete for 6th and 5th spot.

    so why change now to another average coach, it will simply incurr alot of time(at least 2 seasons for the average coach to get it right if he will get it right) and money that will be thrown away on more changes.

    Keep Jol until we have someone with proven successful managerial history, plays attractive football, winner, and belives in youngsters.
  18. why not call back graham, gross, francis...I thingk Spurs supportes will kike them.
  19. This site is just as big a stirrer as anything I have ever read in the media.

    Talk about just wanting to get hits, LET THE STORY DIE DOWN IT WEEKS OLD NOW - JUST LET JOL GET ON WITH IT AND WHAT EVER WILL BE WILL BE. Why bring in up again in every forum possible the papers only latch onto that and keeping on with more stirring To serve their own purposes which are to sell more papers to the idiots who devote time to even thinking Tottenham would appoint Koemen.

    You belive it just because it was in the daily Express!
  20. Many of Spurs supporters here are idiots....you have a manager that has achieved more than spurs could achived with the current squad....


    as Jol has said, how many 1st eleven in spurs team that can walked into 1st 11 (or the first 15) of the top 4 team?

    King?...don't make me laugh! he could not even make to the bench in 2/3 of the season.
  21. Jol's term has run its course. He has taken us as far as he can. He was hired for what he has proven to be: an assistant manager who got promoted when his boss sulked off because of a dispute/personality conflict with Arnesen. Koeman is not my first choice but I would prefer to give him the chance with a squad like ours than Jol continue to make the same mistakes. This season will be a write off if we don't make a change. The conflict created by the board with their heavy handed way of conducting business has caused rifts among supporters and players.Jol has started to act more like he is challenging them to fire him more than trying to win games. His recent comments are getting more anti Spurs board than I would have imagined possible without him being let go immediately. Get rid of him now before the season is in flames.
  22. knowitall is kemsley in disguised
  23. Koemans record isnt all that great and i would rather have Jol in charge than him. I think honestly the board has lined up Ramos and he will be the next spurs manager, which is great as he plays attacking football and is a winner. We need a prick like him in charge just like Mourinho Ferguson Wenger. Managers shouldnt be liked by other clubs like ours is.
  24. Ramos performace at Seville is not purely because he is good...he got much better players there. His record before that was stink as ***hole.

    Even if you put mourinho or Ferguson to replace Jol now, I dont tink Spurs could do better than 5th this season, with the current squad.....get real!
  25. This site is just as big a stirrer as anything I have ever read in the media.

    Talk about just wanting to get hits, LET THE STORY DIE DOWN IT WEEKS OLD NOW - JUST LET JOL GET ON WITH IT AND WHAT EVER WILL BE WILL BE. Why bring in up again in every forum possible the papers only latch onto that and keeping on with more stirring To serve their own purposes which are to sell more papers to the idiots who devote time to even thinking Tottenham would appoint Koemen.

    You belive it just because it was in the daily Express!
  26. Thank you for your views 4:51.

    This article was submitted by a THBN user. We have received many articles concerning Jol in the past 3 days due to the speculation that he'll be sacked.

    We are bringing up the Jol related story because there may be something in it.
  27. if JOL goes, and i hope he does, then it only makes sense to bring in a proven manager at top level, eg Capello, Trap (as an example)
  28. Pushspur the two key words you just used speculation and Maybe - i think stirrer sums the whole thing up perfectly
  29. Get real! nobody (top manager) will come to spurs with the condition taht you must get CL spot with the current squad....and expected to play attractive attacking football for 90 minutes in every game

    maybe herry redknap or warnock would like to come for more money
  30. Capello, Trap or who ever will not come to spurs, because they know will be booed by spurs fans, after 3 games... dream on!

    Spurs will end up with the like of Reknapp, Jewels, Padrew, Gross


    Even Ramos has think twice!
  31. Some of my fellow Spurs fans are so negative. Why would a top manager not come over to us? We have an excellent squad already and it will get better. We will pay top money to get a top manager. We want to win the premiership not just qualify for the champions league so why would someone with the qualities we are looking for not come over to us? A guaranteed 5 year contract with incentive bonuses is very hard to turn down.
  32. the reason why top manager will not come to spur: inpatience attitude that is inherited and inbreed in Spurs culture...board & fans.

    Even if Spurs offer they get at arsenal/chelse, they wont come!

    only redknapp is interested
  33. ...even if spurs offer doubled what mourinho/wenger have now at chelsea/arsenal.....they wont come
  34. Spurs need to be carefull. We have had a great manager in the likes of jol but once again the spurs board have had t have teir two scence which is worth as much as a French franc is now.

    I can't blame jol if he goes he could go to other clubs and get far more support that what he has been offered here. We should all just let him get on with the season.

    For crying out loud there have only been 5 games.

    I have money on that we will finish above arsenal and i still believe that as long as we keep jol but the more every one winges about him the lower we will finish.
  35. Jose will be in charge once the season has finished. You heard it here first.
  36. Sorry, are you guys reading the same Wikipedia piece I am?

    1. Led Vitese Arnhem to UEFA cup spot on limited budget - GOOD (very Jol-like in fact)
    2. Joined Ajax, fell behind PSV after a winning start and resigned after Auxerre knocked them out of UEFA cup - NOT SO GOOD
    3. Took over Benfica (they were champions season before) but could only finish 3rd, knocked out of Portuguese cup, resigned. NOT GOOD AT ALL (and so much for mickey mouse clubs... Benfica?)
    4. Joined PSV (another Mickey Mouse Champions League club), had a great start to season then spunked a huge lead post Christmas, just made it on goal difference. NOT GOOD.

    Sorry - but the way you lot carry on, you'll be baying for his head in 5 minutes.
  37. i love the big man and he loves us
  38. The media love to wreck something that could be good, especially spurs, all the talk aboput a top four finish has bit the dust due to a few bad results and a load of wankers on the board.
    United without Roon and Ron have done fuck all, chelsea without terry are lost, so without King, Dawson, Lennon in the team it was never going to be easy, players like Roche, Gardener in defence are never going to be good enough for what we all expect, Darren Bent might turn out to be a good signing but we already have more than enough quallity up front, we could have spent that 17 mill more wisely but than again this is my spurs and this sort of shit always seems to happen
    I love the big man and he loves us, i still beleive we can challenge for CL spot, players like Zokora and Jenas really have to start proving there worth, and by the way no matter how much i rate Berba, all the flirting with man u has to stop or he can fuck right off, he`ll never be a keano 10
  39. It amazes me that so many of my fellow Spurs fans can be so ungrateful and so short-sighted. You ALL KNOW the history of Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool who have done so well - what do they have in common? They don't switch their manager every 5 minutes! Jol has got us our best finishes in god knows how many years and last season was an improvement on the one before. Ok so this season hasn't started off the best, but we HAVE been unlucky both on the pitch and with injuries, so why not have a bit of faith and if we haven't taken another step forward by the END of the season then we can see what we want to do?!
  40. The point your missing is that Manchester United, Arsenal and Liverpool have sacked managers that cannot take them further;

    Atkinson
    Rioch
    Evans
    Souness

    Just to name a few of the sacked managers from the above clubs you mentioned.

    It has become obvious to many fans and the board that Jol has taken us as far as he can.

    Thanks for the great times Martin. Nice knowing you, but we all feel that this really is as far as your tactical expertise can take you and the club.

    Here's £500,000 as a pay-off. You really are such a nice guy and you'll find a club in absolutely no time at all.

    I am afraid that that will be the conversation approximately 3 games from the end of season. I say 3 games from the end of the season as I feel that this is a wasted season and we won't even make the UEFA placings.
  41. And this Jose that you're refering to, what's his last name?
  42. I think the key thing is that Jol should only be replaced if someone better has been lined up. Someone mentioned that Ramos isnt all that because Sevillas players are much better than ours. This is complete b****. In fact their leading scorer is a spurs reject and someone who MJ sold to them - Freddi Kanoute, who we always used to play out of position. Not only that but Sevilla have been forced to sell key players in the last few years incuding Baptista & Reyes. He has taken an average squad, put together on a small budget and turned them into a team that has won 5 cups, and still had a chance of winning the league last year on the 2nd to last fixture of the season. They have obviously qualified for the chamions league. So I think its fair to say that he would be an improvement on Jol, who depite doing quite well, is not sharp enough to really challenge Wenger, Ferguson or Mourinho when it comes down to it. However Koeman is never better than Jol, so thats a no brainer. C…
  43. Is everyone ready for this?!

    Take a deep breath before reading this comment from Martin Jol himself.....

    Grilled by supporters at a special event held in Enfield, Jol said: "I am shitting myself every time someone has a corner against us. We know it's not right but we are working on it twice a week so it should get better.

    Our manager openly tells the media that he's worried about the opposition taking corners???

    Oh my God!! What kind of numpty is he? Does he think that by being so honest it will earn him browny points?

    The man has got to go. Have you ever heard Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho or Benitez say such a daft thing?

    Please Jol, shut up. Do it for your own good and your £27,000 per week contract.
  44. koeman may well be a better manager, im sure many are, but jol is our manager and a very good one. Much more of this negative speculation and you can forget finishing fourth, we wont finish in the top half. If there was to be a sacking it should have been done at the end of last season not now. imagine the effect on the team/performances if all of a sudden he was sacked and someone else was brought in, by the time he'd made his mark it would already be too late and we would be talking about next season again. lets get behind him and show some gratitude to the man who put us here in the first place.
  45. 40 years a Spur ....

    For those of you who want Jol out & preach he should have done this & should have done that ... your all dreaming !
    Team selection is based on traing performances fittness both physical & mental, up coming games & the opisitions tactics, not on favorite players or bloody Football Manager..... as supporters its great to have an opinon - but please be sencible enough to relize that we dont have the facts to be able to make informed decisions - as we are not apart of the set up....And hind site is a perfect skill especialy when you make statments out of contex, we are on a path of development which will put us as a club in a very strong secure position to be a top of the table competitive team in the comming years because we have bought real talent though young with bags of potential ..... which has made us financily strong & we will get richer & stronger as they develop ..... the last three years have been the most enjoyable football spurs have…