Article submitted by Danny Foster
So then, who has the worst memory? Spurs fans or a goldfish? You decide.
I know that yet again it's only a minority of the fans that are calling for the managers head and that every club has them, but it just seems our minority is slightly larger than any other club's, and although it's still only a minority, it's becoming evermore apparent that there is only a small difference between the minority and the majority.
Don't worry yourself if you're confused by my above statement as it's probably my fault; with everything that is flying around about BMJ (Big Martin Jol), I'm actually beginning to struggling with words, let alone sentences and paragraphs so bare with me.
There really are Spurs fans that want Jol sacked. What are you on? My level of frustration has gone through the roof. Do people not understand that no matter who takes over, it will take years to break the top four? Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal have a ten year head start on us. And as for Chelsea, we know that their billions have helped them enter that bracket.
Maybe this is the reason why no one likes us. Why do we have the right to be there? Aren't there another fifteen teams in the league? Just because we spent a lot of money, it doesn't mean we are now a better team than those that were above us previously, for several reasons, but I'll just pick a few.
A) These teams were above us last season for a reason; they had a better team. Therefore, the first few improvements are just the catch up signings with the other additions maybe taking us beyond them.
B) Further additions may not take us beyond them because unfortunately, we're not the only team allowed to strengthen in the transfer windows (I know, don't worry, I'll be writing to the FA to find out why this is), therefore it makes it even harder to catch up.
C) The head start these teams already have on us as a unit. And I don't just mean the playing staff. I am talking about the coaching staff, the backroom staff, and everything about the structure of these clubs is in place. These clubs work in an orderly fashion, like clockwork, well almost.
D) Also we can't attract the quality that Arsenal can because we can only offer a UEFA Cup run.
There could be a whole alphabet of reasons so I'll stop there for now.
No matter who takes over these facts won't change. Jol said at the commencement of his Spurs career that he had a five year plan to make us a top four team. When he made that bold statement, I nearly choked on my Cornflakes. Even then I thought if he does it in five years he's a miracle worker; he very nearly accomplished it the next bloody season!
Did you know that on average, we've finished just four and a half points behind Arsenal in the last two years? If someone told me we'd close the gap that much in such a short period I'd have been ecstatic.
This minority claim that Jol's isn't the man to take us any further? Why? How do you know that without letting him try? We were all so happy to give him five years to do it in when he took over, but now he's taken us this far, it isn’t far enough?
Remember, it was about this far into his managerial career at Manchester United that the fans were trying to get Sir Alex Ferguson sacked. This just shows how little us fans actually know about football. I truly believe that the 'Jol Out Brigade' are just as wrong.
People question his substitutions and tactics. How can you? Unless you've played the game professionally, you know nothing about football! I don't understand half the stuff Mourinho does, but it works, and to say it doesn't for Jol is ridiculous.
As far as I'm concerned, he's the 5th best tactician in the league. I know he's got more quality to work with than say Portsmouth, but he didn't when he took over.
The perfect example is when Jol played Keane on the left wing against Chelsea in November 2006. He tore them to bits and we beat them for the first time that I can remember in the league. In our game after the Chealsea win, Jol used the same formation/tactics against reading, it didn't work, and so he tried to change it but it was too late. And what did we get after the game? Sites full of people slating his tactics! They deemed the tactics he used three days before against Chelsea as brilliant, but didn't like the way the team performed in the next match.
We all know nothing about football at this level. We don't know what job he's asked the players to do and as fans we look too deeply into things we really have no understanding of.
Let's look at the things we do understand. Martin Jol takes over; we just miss out on Europe. In the next season, we do badly in the cups, but finish 5th (the first time we've qualified for Europe via the league in twenty years). Next season, we participate in two cup quarter finals, one semi-final, and finish 5th again (the second time in twenty years we've qualified for Europe via the league).
So I ask you to think long and hard about this next question; Is that not progress in every season he's been with us?
If you do think it's progress, why do you find it so hard to believe he can progress again?
Too many people keep saying we're showing blind faith in Jol. The evidence is not blind. Since Jol has been at the helm, we've done nothing but go FORWARD under his guidance. Please tell me how that is BLIND faith? Where’s your evidence that he’s not the man to take us forward?
Do you agree with the way he's achieved what he has? The tactics he's used? I personally do. We were the 3rd highest goal scorers in the Premier League last season; yeah we conceded a few, but we were missing King, and more importantly, it's what we asked for; attractive, attacking football. No one complains about the goals Brazil concede. Maybe we should be more careful with what we wish for?
Jol intentionally went against his own footballing principles (which were obviously a bit more negative when he first took over) to create a team the fans wanted. He came out several times to comment on the type of football Spurs fans expect and tried to make a successful team that played that way. This fact on it's own makes his job harder, but he did it for us, the fans.
Would you rather win more but play how Chelsea play? I personally wouldn't. I'd rather get the attacking football right a la Manchester United last year. Maybe if we didn't force this attractive football on him, he may well have moulded a more defensive team together and won us some trophies, but he didn't, and that's down to us, not him!
And let me tell you something, a team doesn't do well IN SPITE of the manager, if a team is badly managed, it does badly.. simple really.
Do you remember pre-Jol? Now look where we are! All we've done is progress under his guidance, yet some people think he's not good enough. We want Juande Ramos, the manager of the team we lost to last year due to two bad penalty decisions and not due to the tactics he employed during the game?
If it wasn't for those two ridiculous decisions, we could well have won the UEFA Cup. Would I be writing this now if we had?
I think not.
Ramos is a manager that has done nothing for twenty years, but has had success in the past two seasons. Jol has vastly improved teams he has been with in Holland and now England.
Remember, were it not for Carlos Queiroz coming back from Spain, Jol would actually have been the assistant at Manchester United. Ferguson is no mug. I am however, starting to think that Levy and some of our supporters are though. I have always thought Kelmsley was!
So I ask you; who has the shorter memory; a goldfish or Spurs fans?
Your article should not exceed 400 words
43 comments:
Ahh spurs and that Goldfish ! is it JJ's bowl ? he hated it.
Fastuna Aspirlla rides again
Nice article Dan Mac ,your spot on cant agree more,I was driving home from the game on Saturday,and either on 606 or Talkshit was a alleged spurs fan saying that we should get hoddle back,as he was the best wed had !!!!!!!!! i nearly crashed the car.
hahahahahaha
I know this site has taken alot of stick, but this is a well thought through dose of perspective that many need to wake up to. Sadly, I think the way this fiasco has panned out may have eroded Jol's authority to an untenable level. The last week is s period the club should be ashamed of.
good article mate.
A rousing speach, one all "jol haters" should read (in between nappy changes).
Danny, i'm not ashamed to admit that i kind of love you now.
GR
What an article! I was thinking of writing a similar article but then i thought why waste my time trying to explain how good BMJ has ben for our club to a bunch of short sighted TW*TS who really don't seem to know a thing about football. Give Jol a chance cos without doubt he's the best thing to happen to our club in 20 + yrs long live JOL
Great atricle, could'nt agree more.
I belive that Jol will take Spurs forward, unfortunately I don't think he will be around to so after the board's backstabbing.
Spot on, blimey I couldn't have written it better myself and I've been writing a lot for the last few days about this. The ones who want Jol out are so out of their element but try to take some kind of arrogant, tactically etc... view on it all and it's a disgrace. The only reason he is under pressure is because he has done so well so wuickly, and they expect that bit more equally as quickly. The board have shown themselves up to be the same ilk, and jJol must just think he's having a nightmare and he'll wake up at any moment. Theyv'e lost faith in him? I dont think he or many of us really can have much faith in them after all this. Perhaps Levy is gearing up for another 9 month spell with NO manager, and then get the "right man" in someone like Santini. The bloke should be thanking his lucky stars that Jol fell into his lap and instead he looks elsewhere. He's really shown himself up to be a fool, and despite the fact that his insistence on the managerial structure that never works being one of the reasons for it all again, I think Levy and his board need to go.
Abolutely spot on.....I would like to add....how comes no one mentions the contribution of Chris Hughton ?? If your going to make anyone a scapegoat, lets start with him.....how many managers has he been through...and still never been approached to manage his own team !!!!
I too am very frustrated by the actions of the board, not because of Jols position, but mainly because it makes us a laughing stock AGAIN.
Just out of interest though - when does Jol pass his sell by date ?
Do we go another two years of finishing top 6 before we expect European Championship football, or should changes be made at the end of this year ?
"And let me tell you something, a team doesn't do well IN SPITE of the manager, if a team is badly managed, it does badly.. simple really."....Sunderland (05/06,&07), Sheffield United, Rotheram, Leicester City, Southend United, Arsenal, ManU, Chelsea, Bolton, Necastle, Reading.....I could go on but I rest my case...as you say, you are a fan and you obviously know nothing about football.
The thing is you can never trust our board again,if they told me the time id check my watch,its that bad.
Spot on article mate. Just hope the board see it the same way. I've no doubt most of the tabloid media are rubbing their dirty mits in glee at the prospect of martin jol doom mongering. But whilst experience tells me it's not worth the paper it's written on, i can't help an inkling that the board may be acting unrealistically ambitiously. If he doesn't get this season at least it will be an absolute scandall. Still, i'm sure the 36 game winning streak we're about to embark on will resolve any issues! COYS!!
Great article try telling some of the knobs on vital football this!
Is that comment that Arsenal doing well was nothing to do with Wenger? Man U doing well was nothing to do with Fergy, Sunderland doing well was nothing to do with Keane? Or do you just not know what 'In Spite' means? Becasue I would say them, clubs did well because of the manager, therefore proving my point no?
"Sunderland (05/06,&07), Sheffield United, Rotheram, Leicester City, Southend United, Arsenal, ManU, Chelsea, Bolton, Necastle, Reading"
I'm sorry, but are you are trying to say these teams are badly managed?!?!? If so, you just made yourself look like a tit.
Either that, or you totally misunderstood the point and just made yourself look like a tit.
1:49 - they wouldn't post it!
The gap between Arsenal and Spurs has closed since 2004 but it's just as much to do with Wenger as what's going on at Spurs.
Wenger has lacked the serious wedge required to push Arsenal on from 2005. He knew that team was finished, notealy Cole, Campbell, Vieira, Pires and Bergkamp. How do you replace players who one of the best in the world in their position on the cheap? You can't.
And so Wenger has had to to take 3 or 4 steps back in order to make one step forward. We've been making a net profit on transfer dealings in the past 3 years! Not the sort of thing you associate with even medium sized clubs, least of all the 13 times Champions of England.
In the meantime, Jol has spent £100m - about £45m net. What's he done with it? Do you get a trophy for 5th place? Do you get trophies for semi-final/quarter-final appearances?
The Spurs board have backed Jol handsomely. If you had Wenger instead of Jol, you'd be challenging Man Utd and Chelsea. Instead, you're battling Everton, Reading, Bolton and Pompey for a UEFA Cup spot.
Having Jol in charge has bought Wenger some time. As he remould and rebuilds his squad, Comolli and Jol continue to squander the best opportunity Spurs have had to overtake Arsenal for 12 years.
As each month passes, the Arsenal team gets stronger and our debt decreases.
We're curently the sick man of the top 4 but we're still maintaining our status as a top 4 side.
Our lowest ebb is higher than your highest high.
Thanks for being Spurs.
1:49 LOL, I did mate but gave up after getting drawn into a squabble. Funny place that is, in the real world I'd say Jol has 90% of the fans backing him. I'd say becasue most fans have longer memories than 3 years. In there it's about 30% backing him I'd say, maybe a little more on a good day.
To people who constantly ask if Jols hould have the season to get it right, before all this Ramos business I'd of said he should be in charge for at least this season and next, whatever happens this season. Not sacking him if he doesn't make CL this season. Because then the problem is any manager who comes in has to get instant CL football or in two years at the most or they have to go, because if Jol isn't given a decent period of time, then nobody should get it.
1:53.. hardly our highest eb, and hardly your lowest. It's not just Arsenal, we've closed the gap on the 10 teams that used to finish above uas outside the top 4 when we were finishing 15th... is that down to Wenger as well?
Just because I used you as an example (simply because you're the closest of the top 4 to us) don't for one minute think this article was in anyway about Arsenal!
great article.........my only concern is that jol appears very negative tatically at times.....but i dont think that he should be sacked....lol
You've finally decided to put a poll up!
About bloody time THBN
So anyone can post an article on here now?
1:53 - You make all these points but are wrong with most of them, but carry on, all the facts are not quite as simple as you seem to make out, but all you're type just do the same thing and aren't going to change because you will just spout figures that are not even close to the truth. I wonder how you can quote our spending when 80%of the deals are undisclosed, but still you know best. You probably do also realise that part of the current problem is because the Director of football has provided Jol with some rubbish and he's not happy about it. On the field Jol has been fantastic from where we were, but your amnesia is the problem for you to grasp this. I'd say thanks for being Spurs, but you dont do us any good.
Great article. Spot on about Chelsea - true Spurs fans couldn't cope with that negative style of football week in week out - even if we did win a few more games. Last seasons FA Cup Final was ruined by Chelsea.
By submitting an article to Poshspur@Gmail.com doesn't guarantee that THBN will post the article.
If the article is appropriate and 400 words or less, it will be deemed for consideration.
Regards
THBN
When are you going to show us this new site that you've been working on for the past 2 years THBN??
Colin, Herts
for me, when we have needed the manager to make a differance ex: in the close games or against the top sides he never really delivers with a match winning sub or enlightened tactics, usually when we are losing he just throws more strikers on and gets our keeper to boot it as far up there as poss (if robbo could score more of his wonder goals would be a good tactic!)anyone who had the misfortune of travelling to sheffield like me last season would surely back me up here!tactically do i really have to say anymore than keane at right wing! is it just me or does he really lose the plot when we have injuries and trys to make up ways of getting as many players out of position as poss,seville last season for example. then when we are winning especially away from home why does he never learn that our team must be one of the worlds worst at holding on to a lead,really playing to our strengths there martin!why did we concede from set pieces all last season and never improve? what does he do in training? we have good players that can win a lot of matches in this lge on there own practicaly, its the important games where the manager can make the differance from the sidelines up till now jol has got us in the position to do something but ultimately failed when it has mattered , Time to make the diferance ,stand and deliver! r back him 100% but ultimately the club is more important than martin jol everyone should just get behind him now he's been given the chance lets see . people that try and say you arnt a fan coz you dont agree with them are ridiculas, i personally surport the boys regardless of what i may think about things in my head because its the best thing to help them win! maybe the jol lovers need some perspective too, jol has a lot to do and to prove , i personally tho pray he does the business. I also dont think he didnt deserve to be treated so badly, but for the board to even consider it there must be some substantially bad stuff with him behind the scenes
Thank god - sense. I have decided three things in the last few days...
1. Martin Jol has more dignity and honour than ANY Spurs manager since Burkinshaw.
2. People who play Championship manager generally know nothing about the real world of football.
3. Paul Kemsley is a trustworthy as a Peado in a swimming pool.
I was going to put something about the 3-year olds logged into VitalFootball but it was too obvious.
Any informed and very well put together piece. I concur with what you have said in full.
The problem is now that we will go one way or the other - Manure may get a backlash from us if the players rally to protect the manager - the other side of that coin is the obvious - we choke at manure/the filth and then who are we to blame. Fortunately for Jol now he can say that all this crap coming from the dove from above has had it's impact on the players and guess what - we lost both of those games down to Levy. I spoke with a director of the club (paul Barber) very recently and TBH - I just get the distinct impression that these people do not give a hoot about us, hear stories of them issueing rumours that Jol wnats to sell Berbs - and thats why they want him out - this is very underhand if true and although I love my club, own a stake in it (and have profitted nicely - on paper anyway) I cannot abide the tactics deployed and being used by our management committee.
That said I urge all fans to make their voices heard on this situation becasue I for one do not want to see the 'progress' as you put it in your article halted. Any new manager - what is he gonna do walk in and get us ten straight wins on the trot? Me thinks not - like players - managers also take time to settle in with the players. Very bad - very bad
The new THBN site (which you'll be able to find at www.THBN.co.uk) is in the design phase.
We will be producing designs for you to see. Once the designs have been posted, we will insert a poll asking you, the user to vote which design you prefer.
The site will go live within 50 days of the site design being picked.
Regards
THBN
Dan Mac,
This is your highest high (in the Premiership years) and this is our lowest low (in the Wenger Years.)
You say you used Arsenal as an example but let's be honest with each other - you and your fellow tiny totts are obsessed with Arsenal.
Levy knows Jol has huge limitations. In approaching Ramos, Levy has tried to replace an inept potato headed liar with one of the most brilliant coaches in world football.
Not only is Ramos a master tactician but he is well-versed in working under a Comolli-esque Director of Football type character.
Jol's a nice guy who's done pretty well with £100m but don't be blinded by his huge failings.
Chelsea and Arsenal didn't knock you out of the FA and League Cups, Jol did.
On top of that, his record in games against the top 4 is appalling. Absolutely appalling. Even Pompey, Bolton and City have better records in the last 3 years.
You should all be applauding Levy for attempting to bring in Ramos, not rallying behind Jol.
Firstly, the obsessed thing... who's commenting on who's webpage?
secondly.. the master tactician Ramos, as you put it. Can you explain to me what he has done in the previous 18 yrs of his managerial career before having 2 good seasons with sevilla where his master tactics actaully threw away La Ligue in the last few weeks?
There r 2 factors to be a team challenging the top 4 spot. Quality team and quality manager. without a quality team, if you have a quality manager, U still can make it to the top 4 with a little bit of luck. Everton has proved it. I appreciate BMJ building a quality team and his job has done. He is not quality enough to bring us forward from here. It is obvious that we have struggle for the first half of last season with a better and bigger team as compared to 2005/06. With him, I dont see him motivating the players and bring out the best of each individual player. If he can comment the team lack creativity in teh midfield after the game, why did he change the formation or substitute a midfielder to change the game? Be objective.....BMJ is good but certainly not good enough for SPURS to be the top. We need a top manager as our current squard is good enough to challenge the top 4. Waste no time cause we dont need another 3 to 5 years. This season is the best chance to go for the top 4.
I second that 2.18
I am a season ticket holder at the lane and have come to realise that Jol is out of his league.
I have something to say
Keown,hes got a monkies head !
Is anyone else uneasy with the board's seemilngly premature reaction?
The fact we've spent so much money, we have a ground capacity of only 36,000 and the board seem desperate has me feeling very nervous. I only hope we aren't going to do a "Leeds" i.e. where our board have gambled money they don't have on CL qualification. It is certainly begginning to look that way for me.
I hope the figures at least add up because we still have our wage cap at abut £45K which is about 3 times less than Chelsea etc or else we might be in financial trouble.
On Arsenal, if we had of beat them to CL qualification two years ago I'd have fancied them to have real financial problems after building the new "Library". It would be interesting then to see who's got the real fickle fans!
dan mac i wrote the 2.08 bit ,whats with the your not a fan rubbish if you disagree with you? im a loyal spurs fan , i agree jol shouldnt of been treated like this, but i do have my doubs about mj and have done since about half way through last season, id like nothing more than for him to do it ,he has got us in good positions these last two seasons with good chances to go one better in both, if you really do go to the games surely you can concede there is room for improvement with jol but i think he def deserves the chance to show he can go one better and learn from his mistakes.hes earnt that ! hopefully all this will cause a them n us scenario with the team and the board and we nutter it, in which case would be a master stroke! i started this season thinking if jol can be a bit braver ,have a bit more balls and learns from his mistakes we could do it , and thank god thats still the case , lets do the mancs at the weekend coys
I'm sorry if that's how my comments have come acroos, but at no point have I gone down the road of saying people who don't agree with me aren't fans of the club? I have simply responded to some comments explaining myself.
It's glaringly obvious Jol isn't the man to get us to the next level.
He's had over 2 seasons and serious finance to show us just a sign of consistent resillience in defence and ruthlessness in attack on the pitch.
Instead, we stumbled - by just 2 points - into 5th place last season, blew it big time in the last game of the season before, against West Ham - all he had to do was win one lousy game, 1, that's all, to get into CL and that's after some dire results againgst other lowly teams such as Sunderland
Blew it repeatedly in cup games against Chelsea, Arsenal, Grimsby (I ask you), what more do you need to work out the writing on the wall?
He has done well for Spurs and is very likeable, but he ain't cutting at the top.
Why shouldn't the people who have provided him with the means to get so far, have questions to ask after losing to Sunderland then Everton at HOME in the season we aiming for a top four finish.
They probably thought, let's see how it goes this season and were so shocked by the crap on offer in the first 2 games they felt it better to act early rather than blow another season.
well wrote, long live BMJ
Quality post mate!
You have it spot on, the board haven't got a clue in my book.
Keep the faith.
Absolute Crap!
I like Jol but he has favorites. A big squad like ours cannot sustain favorites. Jol is our man but he mustn't be able to think that expectations are as low as some of his selections. Jol has blooded fewer Spurs players that have come through the system than any other manager in recent history. Lee, Daniels and now O'hara go the same way and we will never know how good they could have been.
Remember his commnets about a certain reserve team player after scoring two goal agains Everton, TWO years ago?
Deliver or sling it I say!
Post a Comment